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POST 1901 CENSUS PROJECT
Open the door to Canada's Historic Census

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Correspondence Log

Name:
Mr. Larry Bagnell YES

Political Party:
Liberal

Constituency:
Yukon

Province:
Yukon

Telephone:
(613) 995-9368

Fax:
(613) 995-0945

Email:
Bagnell.L@parl.gc.ca

Address:
House of Commons, Ottawa K1A OA6


Constituency Address:
204 Black Street Suite 204
Whitehorse, Yukon
Y1A 2M9


07/01/2003 - email to MP Larry Bagnell from Vince Hunter.
    From: Vince Hunter
    To: Larry Bagnell,
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:23 PM
    Subject: Bill S -13

    I want to thank you for taking the time to sit down with me on Canada Day in Rotary Peace Park in Whitehorse and listen to what I had to say concerning Bill S-13, an Act to amend the Statistics Act to continue to release the census after 92 years. In case I didn't explain myself clearly, let me reiterate my arguments. I and the Canada Census Committee are not against Bill S-13, but certain restrictive clauses it contains. We seek amendments to S-13 as follows:

    1) Removal of Clause 8 - the supposed "informed consent" clause. This clause, if retained, will destroy forever any possibility of future Census being used for any meaningful scientific, demographic or historical research, and will prevent many future genealogists from being able to research their ancestry. It was originally thought that, barring total removal of Clause 8, it would be sufficient to make an OPT-OUT provision rather than OPT-IN. Such a provision would ensure that only those who have given conscious thought to the issue and specifically object to access of their information 92 years in the future would be excluded from the records. We now tend to agree with Information Commissioner John Reid where he states in a letter to the Senate Committee deliberating Bill S-13:

    "...... If the proposed consent is the price to pay for opening past census records to research use, then it is too high a price to pay. The historical database represented by census responses constitutes a developing, growing database of vital interest to the nation. It would be unprecedented and unacceptable incompleteness that would result if even a small percentage of Canadians withhold consent.

    The fact that it is a legal obligation to complete the census is testimony to the importance of this database. If Canadians have no choice when it comes to the the completion of census forms, they should have no ability to choose, by withholding consent, to impair forever, legitimate public use of future census data. I cannot accept that all census records predating 2006 will be open in the future, but not subsequent census dates.

    I therefore urge your committee to reject the consent provision for post - 2006 census records......"

    2) Removal of all restrictions or conditions for access for at least the 1911 and 1916 records of Census. The 1911 and 1916 Censuses were conducted under the same legislation and similar Instructions to Enumerators, as was the 1906 Census, the records of which have been released without restrictions of any kind, and have been placed online for the World to view. I might add that the census up to 1906 and for the past 235 years have been released to the public unrestricted without complaint. I cannot understand why all of a sudden there is a need to change that freedom. There is no reason - legal, moral or logical, for records of the 1911 and 1916 Censuses to be treated any differently than the 1906 records have been.

    3) Removal of the "twenty -year" period during which only partial disclosure of information found in Census records might be made by a researcher, and the need to commit to an "undertaking" regarding this partial disclosure. Need for these conditions have not been demonstrated. They contribute nothing to the privacy of respondents to Census. They do not prevent information from being known. They create a costly, bureaucratic procedure that in the end run will simply be an inconvenience for those that would share information through their family history.

    As stated before, we do not oppose Bill S-13 as a whole, but we most certainly oppose the unwarranted conditions it imposes on the access to Historical Census records that we believe is already permitted, without restrictions, under the Privacy Act and Regulations attached thereto.

    Thanks again for your time and I'll be sure to keep you posted to future developments to this Bill.

    Vince Hunter, vinceh@internorth.com
    Yukon Member, Canada Census Committee
    Whitehorse, Yukon

07/01/2003 - email re: MP Larry Bagnell from Vince Hunter to Gordon A. Watts.
    To: Gordon Watts
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:17 PM
    Subject: MP contact

    Had a chance to sit down at our Canada Day celebrations here in Whitehorse and have a one on one conversation with our MP, Larry Bagnell about our stance on S-13. He was very attentive and after all was said and done said he sure does support the release of the census. I made the point that we were not against S-13, just the restrictive portions of the Bill. He was surprised to hear he was on the committee for S-13 but said that come fall, everything changes. He said it would be good if he is on the committee and able to help us out. I guess that's as positive as he gets. Mark him up for a gold.

    Vince

09/21/2002 - email to MP Larry Bagnell from Vince Hunter.
    From: Vince Hunter
    To: Larry Bagnell, MP; Ione Christensen, Sen.
    Cc: Willie Adams, Sen. ; Ethel Blondin-Andrew, MP ; Nick Sibbeston, Sen ; Nancy Karetak-Lindell, MP
    Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:45 PM
    Subject: Fw: Post 1901 Census - A Summary

    With the Proroguing of the current session of Parliament, new bills will have to be reintroduced for a third time for the release to the public of the Post 1901 Census. I hope your interest in having the Census released to the National Archives will result in your support of these new bills.

    I include a summary of the Post 1901 Census oddyssey below to refresh your memory.

    Yours sincerely,

    Vincent Hunter, vinceh@internorth.com
    Yukon Member,Canada Census Committee
    Whitehorse, Yukon

    -------Original Message-------
    From: "Gordon A. Watts"
    To: "Canada Census Campaign"
    Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 6:09 PM
    Subject: Post 1901 Census - A Summary

    Greetings All.

    A number of people have asked for a point by point summary of the Post 1901 Census issue. Because of this I have compiled the following Summary. Feel free to circulate it to those you feel will be interested. It will shortly be included on the Post 1901 Census Project website which, I am happy to say after the problems of the past few days, is once again accessible.

    Happy Hunting.

    Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net
    Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee
    Port Coquitlam, BC

    http://globalgenealogy.com/Census
    en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

    Permission to forward without notice is granted.

    ***********************************

    Post 1901 Census Issue Summary

  • 235 years of Census records, from the first Census of New France in 1666, up to and including the 1901 national Census of Canada, currently reside in the National Archives of Canada and are accessible to any person or body for purposes of research.


  • Clauses in the Access to Information and Privacy Acts make specific provision for public access to 'personal' information contained in Census 92 years after collection.


  • The National Archives of Canada Act provides that the National Archivist shall determine what records of government are of historical or archival value and that shall be deposited in the National Archives.


  • The National Archivist, Ian E. Wilson, has determined that records of Historic Census do have historical or archival value and are, in fact, a National treasure. He has formally requested Statistics Canada to turn control of the 1906 Special Census of the Western Provinces (Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba) over to his control.


  • Statistics Canada (i.e. Chief Statistician Dr. Ivan P. Fellegi) refuses to turn control of Historic Census records after 1901 over to control of the National Archivist of Canada.


  • The rational for this refusal is based on misinterpreted legislation and Instructions to Officers and Enumerators of Census going back as far as 1905, and Statistics Canada's claim that a 'promise' was made to the people of Canada that confidentiality of Census was perpetual.


  • Statistics Canada has been unable to provide a single piece of documented evidence that a 'promise' of 'confidentiality of Census in perpetuity' has ever been made. It does not exist!


  • In November 1999, then Industry Minister John Manley appointed an Expert Panel to study and make recommendations regarding public access to Historic Census Records. Their report, finally made public 15 December 2000, found no evidence that legislators of the day intended that records of Census were to remain confidential for all time. They recommended allowing public access to all Census records, past, present and future, 92 years after collection. They urged caution only in the method by which records from 1918 to 2001 were made available.


  • In making the Report of the Expert Panel on Access to Historical Census Records public, then Industry Minister Brian Tobin discounted the recommendations contained therein, claiming that 'further broad-based consultations with all Canadians' was required. He stated these consultations would take place with already mandated reviews of the Access to Information and Privacy Acts.


  • The review of the Access to Information Act took place and the report released with no mention of public access to Historic Census records - it was not part of their mandate. A review of the Privacy Act is not expected to be completed within three years, and access to Census is likewise not included in the mandate of those expected to review it.


  • In December 2001 and January 2002 a series of Town Hall Meetings and Focus Groups were conducted across Canada. Of 157 presenters at the Town Hall Meetings, 151 were fully supportive of unrestricted public access of all records of Census, 92 years after collection, in accordance with current legislation.


  • Each of these 151 presenters likewise rejected the so-called 'compromise solution' being pushed by Statistics Canada as being too restrictive in who might access the records, what information might be accessed and what might be done with information retrieved.


  • The 'compromise' does not do what it is proposed to do. It would be excessively expensive to set up and maintain, and would be a bureaucratic nightmare to administer. It would prevent access for the greater portion of the Canadian population that do not live within reasonable travel distance to a government office holding copies of the Census records.


  • Instructions to Officers and Enumerators of Census from at least 1901 to 1946, having the Force of Law, contain clauses that state that records of Census "have value as a record for historical use", that "The census is intended to be a permanent record", and "its schedules will be stored in the Archives of the Dominion." If any 'promise' was made to the people of Canada regarding Census it was this.


  • On 5 March 2002, Calgary lawyer Lois Sparling, on behalf of the Canada Census Committee and many thousands of genealogists and historians, submitted an Application for Judicial Review to the Federal Court of Canada. The purpose of this Application is to obtain a Writ of Mandamus to compel the Chief Statistician of Canada to turn control of 1906 Census schedules over to the National Archivist. It was later modified to include a request for certain declarations relating to public access of these records. At the time of writing the legal action is proceeding more or less as expected.


  • To date (September 2002), more than 55,000 signatures have been sent to Ottawa seeking to regain public access to Post 1901 Census records on the same basis as records up to and including 1901 are currently available.


  • There is still a requirement for signatures on petitions (downloadable from the Post 1901 Census Project website), and for letters to be sent to MPs and Senators seeking their support for access. With an expected proroguing of the current session of Parliament on 30 September 2002 all Bills and Motions (including Bill S-12) will cease to exist. It is expected that Senator Lorna Milne and MP Murray Calder will immediately re-introduce their Census Bills. This will be the third time our Bills have been started from scratch. It is therefore essential that we continue to reinforce our desire for access with our elected and appointed representatives.

07/30/2002 - email from MP Larry Bagnell to Vince Hunter.
    From: Bagnell, Larry - Assistant 1
    Date: July 30, 2002 06:59:45 AM
    To: 'vinceh@internorth.com'
    Subject: FW: [NFLD-LAB] Census allows a peek at our future.

    Vince,

    Thanks for the additional info which will be very helpful. (Its not that low on my priority list !)

    Larry Bagnell

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Vince Hunter [mailto:vinceh@internorth.com]
    Sent: July 18, 2002 1:46 AM
    To: bagnell@parl.gc.ca
    Subject: Fw: [NFLD-LAB] Census allows a peek at our future.

    You probably don't remember me, but we met at the closing of North of 55. I spoke to you briefly about the release of the post 1901 Census, for which you indicated your support. I am forwarding this information to you should you need more arguments in support of your stand.

    Your suggestion to write Dr.Fellegi would be a waste of time. He is the main opposition to the release and has used the best lawyers the tax payers can afford to fight those of us who are trying to find out about our families past history and relationships.

    I know this is probably low on your priority list, but I do thank you for whatever input you may be able to lend to this very worthy cause.

    Vince Hunter, Whitehorse, YT

07/18/2002 - email to Muriel M. Davidson from Vince Hunter.
    Muriel.

    I sent a copy of this to our MP Larry Bagnell, who along with our Senator, fully support us in this cause.

    Vince

    --------------------------------------

    From: Gordon A. Watts
    To: Letters@GlobeAndMail.ca
    Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:28 PM
    Subject: Re: Census allows a peek at our future.

    Editor,
    Globe and Mail.

    Margaret Wente's article, "Census allows a peek at our future" (G&M 17 July 2002) asks the question "How many grandchildren are you going to have?"

    While today's Census may allow a non-identifying peek at our statistical future, if Ivan P. Fellegi, Chief Statistician of Canada, has his way, millions of Canadians and others from around the world will never again be allowed to use Canada's Historic Census records to seek information about their ancestors. Nor will our grandchildren, and their children and grandchildren be able to use these invaluable records to find out about us.

    235 years of Census records, from the first census of New France, up to and including those for the 1901 National Census of Canada, currently reside in the National Archives of Canada and are available for research by any person or body. The Privacy Act and Regulations attached thereto specifically permit the original schedules of Census to be made available 92 years after collection.

    Dr. Fellegi has refused to allow Post-1901 records to be transferred to the control of the National Archivist for eventual release to the public. In this refusal he is in contravention of the National Archives of Canada Act, the Access to Information Act, the Privacy Act and the Statistics Act. After five years and more than 50,000 signatures sent to the government, MPs and Senators, we have finally applied to the Federal Courts to seek a Writ of Mandamus that would force Statistics Canada to release the 1906 Census of the Western Provinces. They should have been available in 1998.

    We seek to regain the same public access to Census records after 1901 that we have had for those records up to then. We have gone through two governments, and three Ministers of Industry (responsible for Statistics Canada). A Report of an Expert Panel appointed in 1999 and a series of Town Hall meetings held this past December and January, all support allowing public access to Census records 92 years after collection.

    How much longer must we wait? And how many more surveys must be endured before Statistics Canada will finally allow the access to Historic Census records that we seek, and that at least three applicable statutes state that we are entitled to?

    For more information you are invited to view the Post-1901 Census Project website at:

    http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census

    or contact the writer at gordon_watts@telus.net

    Thank you.

    Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net
    Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee
    1455 Delia Drive
    Port Coquitlam, BC
    V3C 2V9

12/29/2001 - email to MP Larry Bagnell from Lyn Duncan.
    From: Lyn Duncan
    To: Larry Bagnell, MP
    Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 3:28 PM
    Subject: Canadian Census Committee's Bright Yellow tick

    Dear MP Mr Larry Bagnell

    Thank you so very much for your support of the Post 1901 census release from Stats Canada to our National Archives, after 92 years. You have shown the courtesy of a reply that we all applaud.

    It appears that MP Nancy Karetak-Lindell does not believe us worthy of a response of any kind. While MP Ethel Blondin-Andrew 'passed the buck' with no personal response to our Committee.

    So you see... you are our shining star of the north. And for that we appreciate you! And wish you all the very best in 2002.

    Sincerely,
    Lyn Duncan (White Rock,B.C.)

03/19/2001 - email from MP Larry Bagnell to Linda Squires Vaillancourt and Jane Mosher Page.

    From: "Bagnell, Larry - M.P."
    To: Jane Mosher Page
    Sent: March 19, 2001 11:13 AM
    Subject: RE: census

    Mrs. Vaillancourt and Page,

    No problem; you have my vote.

    Larry Bagnell, M.P.
    Yukon

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jane Mosher Page
    Sent: March 12, 2001 3:32 PM
    To: Bagnell.L@parl.gc.ca
    Subject: re:census

    Hello,

    We are writing to ask for your YES vote to allow census records to be made available.

    One group in particular needs to have this information: British Home Children. This is the name used to describe children who were taken from England starting in the mid 1800's until the mid 1900's. These children often lost complete contact with their families.

    British Home Children and their descendants need the census information to trace their family histories and medical histories.

    Please, vote Yes to allow open access to census records.

    Thank you for your attention.

    Linda Squires Vaillancourt
    Jane Mosher Page

04/11/2001 - letter from MP Larry Bagnell to Brian Slough.

    Brian G. Slough
    Whitehorse, YT

    Dear Brian,

    It was great to see you the other night and catch up with you on things.

    Actually we're already been working on this 92 year issue in Ottawa for some time and I am very supportive. In fact, I even raised it today in a news/public information session on the census. It is good to know I have citizen support when I raise this issue - Thank you for contacting me on this.

    Once again - great to see you both again.

    Larry

04/09/2001 - email to MP Larry Bagnell from Brian Slough.

    From: Brian Slough
    Sent: April 9, 2001 4:56 PM

    To: Bagnell, Larry - M.P. Subject: Release of post-1901 census records

    Mr. Larry Bagnell, M.P.
    House of Commons
    Parliament Buildings
    Ottawa, Ontario
    K1A 0A6

    Dear Larry:

    It was nice to talk with you at the recent Yukon Trapper's Association banquet in Whitehorse. There is one issue that I would like to seek your support on. I am a genealogist, and one of the main tools of our trade is the information contained on historical documents including censuses. As the law stands now, post-1901 censuses are not available for genealogical research purposes. Genealogists across Canada are trying to gain support for a Bill to the public census records after 92 years. There is a web site on the issue at http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census/. Here is a stock letter which genealogists are mailing to politicians:

      "It has been estimated that there are some 7.5 million plus Canadians involved in Genealogical research. These citizens, in their quest for their past, for their Canadian heritage, depend heavily upon the information provided in Census reports. Under current legislation, post 1901 Census reports will not be released to the Public after 92 years, as have been Census reports up to and including 1901.

      In the past two years, many of those 7.5 million plus voters, including myself, have sent numerous letters and email to their local Members of Parliament, Government Ministers, and Senators expressing their dismay with, and opposition to, this legislation. They have requested the legislation be amended to allow release to the Public of Census records after 92 years, starting with the 1911 Census.

      I write to you, as my Member of Parliament, to ask the following question:

        Would you, as a Member of the House of Commons of the Parliament of Canada, having been placed in that position by the voting citizens of your Constituency, vote FOR or AGAINST a Bill supporting release to the Public of Post 1901 Census Records after 92 years, starting with the 1906 Census?

      I await your answer to this question at your earliest convenience."

    Thank you.

    Sincerely yours

    Brian Slough
    Whitehorse, YT

11/27/2000 - Mr. Larry Bagnell was elected to the House of Commons 27 November 2000.

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